Who's right?
How do we know?
There's only one way...
Let. Us. See. The. REAL. Birth. Certificate. Obama.
We know you haven't shown it to us, and you know it.
You're not fooling us. Your propagandists and intimidators aren't fooling us.
Your trustworthiness, integrity, credibility and authority depend on the simple action of picking up the phone and ordering Hawaii to release the birth certificate from its maximum-security hiding place.
If, in fact, it actually exists, as claimed.
Why not? WHAT does it say about you that's so dangerous that you MUST, at ALL costs, hide it?
U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1: Only a natural-born American citizen can be President.
To date, we have NOT been shown valid proof that Obama is a natural-born American citizen, ie. that he was born on American soil to two American citizens (only one of his parents was American).
This is surreal. We're expected to ignore the U.S. Constitution and let Leftists do just whatever the hell they want?
Oh, YES, it DOES matter. The Constitution is a very serious thing. If people try to rule the country unconstitutionally, then those who oppose their unconstitutional rule may well be motivated to take serious measures to restore constitutionl government. I'm just stating plain fact here, that's all.
Disrespect for the Constitution is a very dangerous thing!
Oh... and one must also ask...
Supposing Obama wants to run for a second term, what concrete measures will the DNC take this time, to ensure that their Nominee is the real deal? Will they, in Obama's case, as they must with anyone else, demand the real birth certificate (and require that it be displayed publicly for all to see), or will they AGAIN just pretend that, oh, of course the guy was born in America, so it's silly to think it's even possible he could've been born in another country and then, as appears to be the case, soon thereafter moved to Hawaii and had the birth registered there, even though the birth actually physically occured somewhere else, like in Kenya, which the Kenyan government, in unanimous consensus, confirms is the case?
To listen to Obama supporters in their denial is surreal. They expect us to abandon all logic, reason, the Constitution and ignore all observable evidence and fact. They want us to pay attention to only those who claim that Obama was born in America and ignore, derisively as "birthers", "cranks", "conspiracy theorists" and even "racists", all who say he wasn't (this includes the entire Parliament of Kenya!). Hmm. I guess the entire Parliament of Kenya are all "racist", eh? Hmm? Even though they look like they could be Obama's brothers and sisters?
Keep on keeping on with the pressure. Communist revolutionary leader Saul Alinsky said to. Obama understands this very well, as an Alinskyist disciple himself, so he can hardly complain without looking like a hypocrite.
25 comments:
The Constitution is a very serious thing
Not to the OBAMA and his administration. They feel that the is Constitution should be rewritten to suit them just as Hugo Chavez wants to change the Venezuelan Constitution to remain as president 'for life.'
We have been shown the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii. This is more than any other president has shown. The Certification of Live Birth is the only birth certificate that Hawaii currently issues, and it has been confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii.
Wrong, Ellen.
The COLB is a condensed, electronic version of the original, long-form, signed B.C. (The long-form original indicates the exact hospital where the birth occured, and bears the signature of the doctor who delivered the baby).
And the COLB was issued for babies born ANYWHERE in the world. Therefore, even if the COLB was the ONLY document ever issued when babies are born or registered in Hawaii, still the fact remains that it would NOT then constitute valid proof of an American birth for that very reason. Therefore, if that were the case, then as there's no proof that Obama was born in America, he cannot constitutionally be President.
Further, Hawaii indicates that it is in possession of the original, long-form B.C. and will not let anyone see it, as per orders of Obama himself.
I'm very sorry, but you've been given the wrong information by a source or sources that don't know what they're talking about or who are lying.
Further, if we can ignore the Constitution so that Obama can be President, then we can ignore the Constitution for ANYTHING. And that is extremely dangerous. The fact that it's already being done is cause for grave concern, because once we give the Hard Left a couple of inches, they'll haul us all to the edge of space!
Further still, once the Republicans are back in power and if they choose to ignore the Constitution, then those who ignored the Constitution in favor of Obama's Presidency and of his unconstitutional policies, they'll have no credibility when demanding that the Constitution be respected by the Republicans!
Do Obamacrats want this? Do they wish to set a dangerous precedent that could end up backfiring on them?
Furthermore, Hawaii refuses to authenticate the COLB-appearing document uttered by the Obama camp, plus it's been deemed a fake by an expert who himself also deemed another claimed B.C. as fake (that one claimed Kenyan birth for Obama).
So the logical, reasonable person will necessarily have to doubt that they've been told the truth by the Obama camp and by Obama himself.
You said: “The COLB is a condensed, electronic version of the original, long-form, signed B.C. (The long-form original indicates the exact hospital where the birth occured, and bears the signature of the doctor who delivered the baby).”
Yes, the COLB is a short-form birth certificate, but it is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it is the ONLY birth certificate that Hawaii issues. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html.)
Notice in the article where it says: “: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.”
You also said: “ And the COLB was issued for babies born ANYWHERE in the world. “
First, when Obama was born, it was NOT allowed to register a birth outside of Hawaii, so only births inside of Hawaii were allowed. Second, Hawaii has never issued a birth certificate that says on it “born in Hawaii” unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii. Obama’s birth certificate says on it “born in Hawaii,” and the facts on it were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii.
You also said: “Therefore, even if the COLB was the ONLY document ever issued when babies are born or registered in Hawaii, still the fact remains that it would NOT then constitute valid proof of an American birth for that very reason.”
It is the only document issued now, and it no longer sends out copies of the original, as the article shows. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the military. If Congress were to pass the so-called “birther bill” requiring future candidates to show their birth certificates, the COLB would satisfy the requirement, because it is the official birth certificate of Hawaii.
You said: “Therefore, if that were the case, then as there's no proof that Obama was born in America, he cannot constitutionally be President.”
The Wall Street Journal said: “In truth, Obama has proved that he is a native of Hawaii, and this proof would hold up in any legal or administrative proceeding.”
You also said: “Further, Hawaii indicates that it is in possession of the original, long-form B.C. and will not let anyone see it, as per orders of Obama himself.”
Yes, Hawaii has repeatedly said that it has the original. No, it would not show the original EVEN IF OBAMA ASKED THEM TO. Obama has not asked that the file be kept secret. It is secret normally. He has not asked that they show the original because even if he did ask that they show the original, they wouldn’t. They only send out the short-form Certification.
Re: Unconstitutional claims. Since Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, he is perfectly constitutional. That is why the Chief Justice of the United States swore him in. That is why he received all 365 Electoral Votes that he won in the general election. And that is why he was confirmed unanimously by Congress.
You also said: “ Furthermore, Hawaii refuses to authenticate the COLB-appearing document uttered by the Obama camp, plus it's been deemed a fake by an expert who himself also deemed another claimed B.C. as fake (that one claimed Kenyan birth for Obama).
First on the “fake” claim. Two guys who will not give their real names have said this. The officials in Hawii have twice confirmed the facts on the document. The McCain campaign looked into all the allegations about fakes and birth outside of the USA, and concluded there were no facts behind them. Note that the officials twice confirmed the facts on the COLB based on the original birth certificate in the files. You say that they “did not authenticate,” but in fact they did.
I'd LOVE to have you substantiate these claims.
I've already done so on this blog. Perhaps you've missed it.
My blog is searchable.
Can you do better than some claim by some "columnist" in some Big Media paper?
I have no idea where you're getting your information. I'd really like to see any proof, not hearsay, so I can judge for myself.
Lots of folks are confused as to the facts, and are going by hearsay, and this is no good.
These claims are substantiated. Notice the reference to the article in the newspaper. If you would like me to clip the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii and post them, I'd be glad to.
I have already shown that Hawaii does not send out copies of the original birth certificate anymore.
...even if [Obama] did ask that [Hawaii] show the original, they wouldn't...
You're twisting yourself into a pretzel; Americans should not have to ask the State of Hawaii to show the birth certificate - Obama should do so in order to put the issue to rest. Can you propose why any reasonable person would go to so much effort to conceal an innocuous document like his birth certificate which could prove once and for all that he was born in the USA?
You said:
"Americans should not have to ask the State of Hawaii to show the birth certificate - Obama should do so in order to put the issue to rest."
Hawaii does not send out copies of the original birth certificate anymore. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html0. As you can see, it does not send out anything but the Certification of Live Birth, which is the new official birth certificate.
You also said: "Can you propose why any reasonable person would go to so much effort to conceal an innocuous document like his birth certificate which could prove once and for all that he was born in the USA?"
Obama has not concealed it. He has posted the official birth certificate. He was the first and only US president to show his birth certificate. Obama cannot show the original birth certificate because he does not have it. Hawaii sent him the Certification, the new official birth certificate, which is what it sends to everyone.
Obama has not concealed it.
He's spend hundreds of thousands of dollars doing precisely that. Where have you been for the last year?
He's spent millions, actually, on a legal team to thwart any court action to get the B.C. released, indicating that the ORIGINAL exists, and Obama's concealing it at all costs. Not his own money, but it appears that it's donated, and being used illegally. Gonna take someone like James O'Kefee and Breitbart to expose that, 'cause the Big Media won't go there.
I did a lot of reading on this last night. A Lot. First thing is that there is a whole lot of s__t posted about Obama that is just disappearing. That in itself is troubling. Second thing is that so many misguided people are posting stuff, it’s unreal.
To debunk some of the above start here: http://mijgreb.blogtownhall.com/2009/02/05/exactly_what_kinds_of_birth_records_does_hawaii_provide.thtml
This research shows what the possibilities were in the 60's.
A COLB is just that. Bring in a live baby and you get a COLB. Stanley Ann was a foolish little 17 year old girl playing Commie when Barry sr. (24) knocked her up. She had the baby at 18 (pre Rowe vs. Wade) but where? Kenya? Probably not as Barry Sr. already had a wife and kids there that he forgot to mention to naive little smart ass Stanley. Some think Canada is most likely...more on that later. Or, perhaps Hawaii. So the papers behind the COLB are what is needed to satisfy the constitution. Those who think the COLB does it are misinformed. More here: http://countusout.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/ex-post-birth-certificates-available-in-hawaii-in-1961/ As to the statement of the Dr. Chiyome Fukino, he or she is not qualified to determine the nature of the supporting documentation so that was silly.
I understand Ellen's zeal over "the official certificate." It's official all right, and good for most things except the presidency. Sorry.
Other Anon. didn't read the article he/she posted and readily makes the mistake of using today's law to address 1961. There's a term for this mistake but I can't remember the phrase (temporal relativism?). It's silly to blog so hard from such an ignorant perspective.
1. The paperwork still exists and was not destroyed during the transition to digital data from 1908 ->
2. Little Miss Stanley was of legal age at the time.
3. Barry may have been conceived on the night Kennedy was elected. (BARF!)
A: O.K. so the COLB is crap. WSJ and Supreme Court are in error.
B: The electronic file is too easily altered.
C: The submitted documentation is what is required here.
What if this has been buggered too? Is this classic misdirection so that we miss the real smoking guns, the passports, travel documents, etc.?
Check this out. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009/05/ghost-of-stanley-ann-duham-obama.html. WOW now that's different. Barry born in Canada! Perhaps.
On the long form: (I've got mine from Virginia and it is the same, almost exact.)
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105347
An article deleted from Google and the Baltimore Sun on Stanley: http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/barack-obamas-mother-was-a-communist/
As I said before, lots of internet “missing links.” I think he was born in _________ but there is still a conspiracy of the highest order here. ∞ ≠ ΓΈ ☺
You said: “ He's spend hundreds of thousands of dollars doing precisely that. Where have you been for the last year?’
No, he hasn’t. He spent money defending lawsuits that tried to stop the election. That was by far most of the lawsuits. Then he spent money defending lawsuits that tried to stop the Electoral College from voting, and then lawsuits that tried to stop the Congress from certifying the election (which it did unanimously), and then he spent money defending lawsuits that tried to stop the Inauguration. There was never a lawsuit just for the birth certificate or just for documents.
Obama has shown his birth certificate, the official birth certificate of Hawaii. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out. It no longer sends out copies of the original.
You said: “He's spent millions, actually, on a legal team to thwart any court action to get the B.C. released…”
I repeat. He did not. There has never been a lawsuit that just asked for the birth certificate. If there had been one, the court would have accepted the official birth certificate of Hawaii.
You said: “indicating that the ORIGINAL exists, and Obama's concealing it at all costs. “
The original exists but Obama does not have a copy. He only has a copy of what Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out copies of the Certification of Live Birth (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). That is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it would be accepted by any court. As the Wall Street Journal said:
“In truth, Obama has proved that he is a native of Hawaii, and this proof would hold up in any legal or administrative proceeding.’’
Continued:
You said: “A COLB is just that. Bring in a live baby and you get a COLB. ‘
Who said this? It is not true. Only under special circumstances, unexpected birth in a taxi, birth at home without a doctor or a midwife, would Hawaii grant any birth document, and in that case there would have to be a delay of at least a month. THERE WAS NO DELAY IN OBAMA’S CERTIFICATE, as shown by the notices in the newspapers. More important, Hawaii would not then or now issue a birth document that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii. Obama’s says “born in Hawaii” and that fact has been confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii.
You said: “but where? Kenya? Probably not as Barry Sr. already had a wife and kids there that he forgot to mention to naive little smart ass Stanley.”
I agree with you. Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, as the official birth certificate and the repeated confirmations of the officials show. Moreover, Stanley did not have a passport in 1961, so she could not have given birth in Kenya.
You said: “Some think Canada is most likely...”
In those days Canada would not allow pregnant women from other countries to enter Canada for fear of creating new Canadian citizens. She would have had to have traveled while she was visibly pregnant for your scenario to work.
You also said: So the papers behind the COLB are what is needed to satisfy the constitution.’
Since no president before Obama showe a birth certificate, are you saying that they all broke the Constitution? The official birth certificate, confirmed by the officials in Hawaii, is sufficient legal proof. It would be nice to see the original document, but that is not Obama’s decision. Even if he asked Hawaii to show it, Hawaii probably would not because it has announced that its policy is to keep all birth records secret and to send out only the new official birth certificate, the Certification.
You said; “As to the statement of the Dr. Chiyome Fukino, he or she is not qualified to determine the nature of the supporting documentation so that was silly.”
She saw the original document and she is perfectly qualified to determine that it was an original birth certificate from Hawaii. She was not alone. The original was seen by her and by the head of the department of Vital Records and by the clerk who issued the Certification in 2007.
You said: “It's official all right, and good for most things except the presidency. Sorry.”
Baloney. This is what the Wall Street Journal said:
“Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.’
You also said: “1. The paperwork still exists and was not destroyed during the transition to digital data from 1908 ->”
I agree. The DOH is on record saying that the original exists. However, the DOH is also on record saying that it never sends out copies of the original anymore
You also said: On the long form: (I've got mine from Virginia and it is the same, almost exact.)’
Yes, some states send out the long form and some states send out the short form.
In sequential order:
If you followed my posts you would see that ANY non hospital birth of any child is eligible for a COLB if presented within 1 APPARENT YEAR of said birth with supporting testimony of witnesses. There is no way to determine a delay or not without a hospital birth (We have no confirmation of a hospital birth). Many were not born in hospital at that time. Furthermore the documentation is SPECIFIC to this type of event (not just any) and would say that the child was born in the state based on testimony by midwives, cab drivers, whoever.
"Stanley did not have a passport in 1961” Evidence please.
Let's suppose that she did travel and had the baby elsewhere as part of her apparent lifelong rebellion from her parents. We know she was a single mother living in Seattle going to University there with an infant son. She was not 'into' being home at the time. It is plausible that her parents prevailed upon her to get the child registered as it was in his best interest. A task easily handled with the help of a friend. Remember Stanley was pretty much a single mom at the time. If my child were in these shoes I'd get the baby registered.
"In those days Canada would not allow pregnant women from other countries to enter Canada for fear of creating new Canadian citizens."
Supposing she crossed the border undetected (if this is accurate (evidence)) what then? Would they throw her off the hospital steps? No midwives?
Take McCain for example. Same election; he went through all the hoops to be sure. He would have been the first of his type so he made sure he was O.K. to be president. Obama is the first to be conceived by an unnaturalized foreign national (six others had immigrant parents all naturalized). So if he doesn't have proof of birth in the states he can't be president (or vice apparently). We all know a Hawaii COLB doesn't do it. So, break out the long form.
He had one before, when he got his passport to Indonesia. If you followed my posts the long form would have been issued at that time. Or did he travel as Barry Soetorro?
In the scope of such a huge constitutional crisis everything else and, really, all arguments are moot. As I said the WSJ (Wall Street Journal) and the Supreme Court have gotten it wrong. Simple inattention to detail. And no, the administrators in Hawaii do not have the authority to answer a question of this magnitude.
Suppose he’s Hospital Hawaiian born. Why not come forward? He’s hiding something, using misdirection to hide something else, or just laughing at the birthers. It’s been long enough now. Natural born or not… he looses. He’s an arrogant horse’s ass. ∞ ≠ ΓΈ
Civility but... No smiley for you! NEXT
http://passportsusa.com/?page_id=209 ∞ ≠ ΓΈ ☺
Good link.
Too many anonymouses (anonymice) especially when some make sense and others make caca.
You said: “If you followed my posts you would see that ANY non hospital birth of any child is eligible for a COLB if presented within 1 APPARENT YEAR of said birth with supporting testimony of witnesses.
Answer: BUT NOT FOR A COLB THAT SAYS ON IT “BORN IN HAWAII.” Obama’s says on it “ born in Hawaii.”
Moreover, the kind of birth document you refer to REQUIRED a delay of at least a month after the birth before it could be issued. But there was no delay in issuing the birth certificate in Obamas’ case. It was issued on August 8, four days after his birth (which was pretty fast considering that the birth was on a Friday). And the date of the issue is confirmed by the dates of the notices of birth that appeared in the newspapers. Moreover, the officials in Hawaii said that the original document confirms that Obama was born in Hawaii—not that there was a birth document that did not show the place of birth. And they said this twice.
You said: “There is no way to determine a delay or not without a hospital birth (We have no confirmation of a hospital birth). “
Here is confirmation that Obama was born in a Hawaii hospital, Kapiolani (as he has always said, and his sister too-though she was misquoted once). (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7lxgRu-fdYQJ:www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html).
You asked: “Stanley did not have a passport in 1961” Evidence please.”
This is spelled out in Obama’s first book, Dreams from My Father, in which he describes the time before going to Indonesia in these words: “The time was spent applying for passsport(S)” Stressing passports plural. Remember that this was written before Obama ran for Senate, and LONG before he ran for president.
You also said: “Let's suppose that she did travel and had the baby elsewhere.”
The official birth certificate, the officials, the witness cited above, even Obam’s Kenyan grandmother said that Obama was born in Hawaii.
You said: “ Supposing she crossed the border undetected (if this is accurate (evidence)) what then? Would they throw her off the hospital steps? No midwives?”
You are getting desperate.
You said: “Obama is the first to be conceived by an unnaturalized foreign national (six others had immigrant parents all naturalized).”
You are referring to after the expiration of the grandfather clause in Article II. Before that at least one president had two parents who were not naturalized, Andrew Jackson, and he was one heck of a president. If you are saying that a president needs two US parents to be eligible, that is clearly not the case. There are dozens of US federal cases that describe the US-born children of foreigners as Natural Born Citizens.
You also said: “So, break out the long form.”
How? Hawaii does not send it out anymore (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). As you can see, it only sends out the new, official birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth.
You aid: “He had one before, when he got his passport to Indonesia. If you followed my posts the long form would have been issued at that time. “
Yes he HAD one, but that does not mean that he still has it. People often lose their birth certificates, and when they do they apply to the state for a copy, and in Obama’s case when he applied to Hawaii for a copy, Hawaii sent him the COLB.
You said: “Suppose he’s Hospital Hawaiian born. Why not come forward?”
He HAS come forward. He has posted and shown to both PolitiFact and FactCheck the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and he is the only president to have shown his birth certificate publicly.
Excellent discussion of the facts at: http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_birth_certificate_2.htm
If I had hair, I'd be pulling it out already.
Would somebody please just prove, for once and for all, no BS, that Obama was born on American soil by simply showing us the only document that can be considered valid proof, ie. the source document, the original, long-form birth certificate, which indicates hospital of birth as well as country of birth?
The COLB isn't such a document. Only the BIRTH CERTIFICATE is.
Smoke and mirrors and cunning linguistics a la Chomsky isn't going to fool me.
Obama must show his birth certificate, or those who question his eligibility will only continue to do so, and so will a growing number of people.
That's one of the things that would hurt him if he tried to run for a second term. Of course, his pisspoor presidency is the most important problem he's creating for himself. Then again, he may have zero intention of running for a second term, in which case he feels he can be as poopy as he wants, and he sure is. Pyoo-whhoo-hoo!
Methinks the Anonymous commentor might be from something like MoveOn.org or one of those Soros-funded groups for which we might find a profile on DiscoverTheNetworks.org. They do this sort of thing, running cunninglinguistic propaganda while knowing (they ought to, anyway) that they don't know what they're talking about.
The Left doesn't have a Tea Party because the Left isn't a populist, grassroots movement. The Left is a cult, actually, and its members are brainwashed into being on that side and being activists for it. It's a helluva big cult, obviously. And they're willing to drink Kool-Aid so they can blast off with BammaRamma. Money makes people join the Left, too.
Yes I too smell Soros. Last time I encountered anything that unpleasant two big 18 wheelers blew past me on Rt. 15 on the Susquehanna River in PA. They were both brimming with pig shit. My God there was nowhere to run. River on the right and a 150 ft. red dog embankment on the left. I had to stand there gagging for ever waiting for the stench to settle. Oh yea, no wind either. I'll never forget the experience but now there is a name for it. Soros.
Oh yea, BTW last post for me here. This guy is the desperate one trying to counter with testimony from Obama. Now that's just silly.
Here: http://educate-yourself.org/cn/orlytaitzletter24feb09.shtml
∞ ≠ ΓΈ
You said: “The COLB isn't such a document. Only the BIRTH CERTIFICATE is.”
You are wrong. The COLB is a birth certificate, and the facts on it were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii. The COLB is the official birth certificate of Hawaii (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). And, it is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. It no longer issues copies of the original.
You said. “Methinks the Anonymous commentor might be from something like MoveOn.org or one of those Soros-funded groups..”
I’m just a guy who voted for Obama. I’m not a member of any organization.
Obama has shown valid legal proof of his birth in Hawaii. There is even a witness who recalls being told of his birth in Hawaii. His Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Hawaii. His mother did not have a passport in 1961, so how could she have gone to Kenya?
The Wall Street Journal said: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”
Actually, Obama's Grandma did NOT say he was born in Hawaii. She said he was born in Kenya, and that she personally witnessed the birth there.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=107524
The Oct. 16, 2008, telephone interview was conducted by American Christian minister Ron McRae, who describes himself in his affidavit as an overseer of the Anabaptist Churches in North America and a "Presiding Elder on the African Presbytery."
McRae, who called from Detroit, says Sarah Obama was in a public setting with several hundred people listening to the telephone call on a speakerphone. The interpreter was Vitalis Akech Ogombe, the community chairman of Sarah Obama's village of Nyang'oma Kogelo in Western Kenya, 30 miles west of the Lake Victoria-city of Kisumu.
"In the ensuing public conversation, I asked Ms. Obama specifically, 'Were you present when your grandson was born in Kenya?'" McRae testified in his sworn statement. "This was asked to her in translation twice, and both times she replied, "Yes! Yes she was! She was present when Obama was born."
Video, with Obama's grandma...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bloHSojeLAw
So... what is the truth? How do we know?
Only one way to be sure.
The Original Birth Certificate. It doesn't matter what is the "official" "birth certificate" (the COLB, as "Anonymous" claims) NOW in Hawaii, because it will NOT prove Obama was born in America. Duh! Sheesh!
What does "Anonymous" think we are, stupid??? Let's just stick to proving Obama was born in America... or wherever. Only ONE document will be accepted by the reasonable, logical person, ie. the ORIGINAL, LONG-FORM B.C., NOT the "now-'official' 'birth certificate' (COLB)". Really, how stupid does "Anonymous" think we are???
You said: “The Oct. 16, 2008, telephone interview was conducted by American Christian minister Ron McRae, who describes himself in his affidavit as an overseer of the Anabaptist Churches in North America and a "Presiding Elder on the African Presbytery."
And that he asked: 'Were you present when your grandson was born in Kenya?'’
The transcript of the call (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf) shows that he asked was “
Was she present when he was born in Kenya?” Now, could that mean was she present in Kenya when he was born (anaywhere)? What counts is the translation of the question, and we do not know what it was translated as. Could it have been translated as ‘Was she present in Kenya when he was born (no place listed)? Yes, of course. She was certainly present in Kenya when Obama was born, but we do not know that she said “Yes” to him being born in Kenya.
It is because we do not know, and McRae also did not know from the “Yes” answer whether she meant that Obama was born in Kenya, that McRae asked the obvious question: “Where was he born?”
The actual question as to the location of birth was: “Uh, when I come in December I would like to go by the, the place, the hospital where he is born. Uh, could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?”
And the actual answer was:
Quotes:
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (to McRae): No! Obama was not born in
Mombasa! He was born in America!
MCRAE: Wh-whereabouts, whereabouts was he born? I, I thought he was
born in Kenya.
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: No he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
MCRAE: OK. Do you know whereabouts he was born?
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: (Pause.) Huh?
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
Voice in background: Hawaii
Voice of woman (possibly Obama’s grandmother): Hawaii
Brother Tom (McRae’s representative, also known as Rev. Kweli Shubula [a pseudonym]: “Hawaii, Yeah?”
Voice of woman: “Yeah.”
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Yes.
TRANSLATOR OGOMBE TO MCRAE: “Sir, she says that he was born in Hawaii.”
End quotes
This, as you can see certainly does NOT say that Obama was born in Kenya. It is thus not proof of Obama being born in Kenya. McRae may say that she said Obama was born in Kenya, but it is not true. In fact, it has to be a lie. Why would anyone lie in an affidavit? One reason was because it was fairly obvious that the case was going to be thrown out, and so there was little change that the court would investigate the lie.
The second reason is the amount of hatred that McRae must have for Obama. After all, it takes a lot of motive to say that a person said “Kenya” when she actually said “Hawaii.”
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