Monday, September 19, 2005

Yet Another Loudly-Trumpeted Poll Favoring Libs

Here we go again. A poll is released claiming increased support for the Liberals. Naturally, the largely Liberal-favoring MSM leaps upon it, hoping to manipulate the electorate into thinking that somehow the Libs must be doing quite well as long as more people are saying so via polling. Here, I'll examine this CTV report on the poll in question.

Let's just look at the Liberals and Conservatives here, for they're the only parties that really matter when it comes to forming the next government. Libs: 40%; Cons: 24%, according to the claim made by Leger Marketing.

Bear in mind that:

"The numbers were reached after distribution of the 20 per cent of respondents who were undecided. "

Ok, so apparently it's standard practice in the polling profession to "distribute" the undecided percentage among the parties. But I personally find this to be worthless in terms of reliability, as regardless of established "scientific" methods as pertains to polling, the real world will not in any significant likelihood mirror this arguably arbitrary practice, however esteemed it may be amongst pollster peers. After all, polling is not an exact science any more than is economics, which itself has plenty of disagreement among its own peerage. Why do the pollsters seem to be so cocksure that their "science" is so damned exalted and practically above question? This is the impression I have gotten from discussing polling with those who understand it best- the members of the profession. It's best to provide the raw, undistributed numbers, including the undecided, so as to allow the electorate to better judge for itself and draw its own analysis, in my opinion, which I believe would be shared by many Canadians who don't like to be told what to think.

Here's some actual pollster analysis:

"It shows that even though they (the Liberals) went through hard times last spring, it seems that they're slowly coming out of it," said Anne-Marie Marois, Leger Marketing's research director.

In my opinion, that's pure opinion, completely at odds with common sense, as more Canadians than ever before are aware of how bad the Liberals really are and therefore would be highly unlikely to vote Liberal at such an implausibly lofty rate, which is the same as the Liberals have had, roughly, under Chretien when he won his majorities. Never happen again in a very long time, one must realize. Exact science, sure. Sure. But the pollsters will still defend their exalted "methods" and "techniques", of which they love to point out we know little or nothing, therefore our opinions are wrong and theirs are right...

Another surprising statement of Mme. Marois:

"And as long as he waits at least until the Gomery report is out and as long as the Conservatives still have Stephen Harper leading the party, his chances can only improve."
(emphasis mine)

Ah, yes. There we have it: a clear partisan bias, as far as I'm concerned. Mme. Marois really should have been more judicious when opining about Mr. Harper's leadership's supposed effect on the relative electoral chances of the Tories and Grits, especially as she offered no rationale or even polling numbers (which really don't mean much crap to me). There's no reason for any intelligent, open-eyed Canadian to believe that there's anything lacking in Mr. Harper's leadership, unless they let his partisan opponents tell them what to believe. Also, there's Mme. Marois's bizarre logic that waiting till the Gomery report comes out will improve Liberal support! Only in the "Bizarro World", for sure! Man! Some people just go and make public spectacles of themselves by making such statements.

My own experience with polls is this: When a poll comes out claiming increased Liberal support and decreased Tory support, the MSM will go to work trying to get that claim rammed into the electoral consciousness. Why, here in Saint John, NB, the "Telegraph Journal" this morning put the "Lib-40%" poll right up on top on the front page. Contrast this with when polling claims increased Tory and decreased Liberal support. Never have I seen this on the front page of the TJ. Perhaps it'll be buried deep down in a little blurb of an article, barely noticeable. Plus, many times, I've seen one MSM outlet report on a poll favorable to the Tories, but nowhere else. A few days later, a poll comes out saying the Tories are "down" and practically the entire MSM in the nation takes off with it. Real-life story here. Leads one to the reasonable belief that the MSM is cheering for the Liberals. The longer they keep it up, the less reliable they'll be perceived as a source of objective information. No wonder so many people all the time are turning to the blognet to help them develop their perspective on whatever "information" comes their way.

Remember, polls are for dogs to piss on.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

This poll will be used to try and make the story "CPC doesn't have a chance with Harper".

Then the MSM can happily take up that talking point as if it were real news, instead of what it is, a entirely concocted deception.

Canadian Sentinel said...

You're correct, Cal. I've seen the pattern of this happening since the early nineties. The MSM loves to beat up on us conservatives. Just hear the talking heads refer to "the polls" saying we're finished and all that. Of course, they've always been wrong. We're stronger than ever, but you wouldn't know it from polls. A better number to look at is the total donations to the CPC relative to those to the Libs. Huge, telling difference!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Canadian Sentinel said...

Note to "Don":

If you wish to use the sort of abusive language on this site as you did with the comment I just deleted, the Sentinel reserves the right to delete such comments entirely.

So clean it up. Got anything to contribute like an intelligent person?

Canadian Sentinel said...

Thanks for your input, Tim. It's very helpful to my understanding of polling industry practice, of which I know about as much as the next political junkie.

Anonymous said...

That gave me a laugh...your're such a weenie...and like every good Nazi right winger a strong believer in censorship....grow up, get a life or I'll tell mom.

Don

Canadian Sentinel said...

That's better.

Funny a "Liberal" would accuse anyone else of censorship. It's, after all, the Liberals who're doing it more and more as long as they can get away with it.

Can you say "CRTC"? Can you say "gag 6,000 civil servants for life for non-national security reasons"? Can you say "political correctness"?

And then there was the time your former boss, the Teflon Jean, was abusive towards the waitress just because she asked a legitimate question wrt his lying about scrapping the GST...

And what did you people do to Andrew Coyne?

You're one to speak.

Anonymous said...

So how about this for possible impact on the outcome of liberal polls.

Call made - respondant found out it was a poll, doesn't trust them to be unbiased, hates the liberals and won't talk to the polster. So his "never vote liberal" never even gets considered. Not undecided, just refuses to talk to polsters. How many of those do they get?

We are pressed by the media to believe these polls, but know so little about how they are done. I don't mean the high level common practice. I mean has anyone ever sat all the way through the process, right from deciding who to phone, to how questions are asked, what do they do if the person called speaks german? or spanish, or english??

Do they ask the first caller the same way they ask the 1000th caller. what if the polster can't quite understand the answer, do they just interpret what they heard? Do they call the same people from one poll to the next.

What do they do with the people who are sarcastic and rude?? Does one person make the calls or do 100 people make the calls. Is it just a job to those making the calls? Something to get through as quickly as possible? Do they ever just ignore the call and fill in the answers in order to stay on schedule? I would love to poll the polsters to find out what their answere would be and if the results would mirror the results they get from those they question.

Given the kind of corruption we see in the Liberal party, how many of the people making the calls are Liberal party supporters? Or known to the Liberals, who know how to put out the "warm and furry mat". I can't ask you to influence the outcome, but we know how hard you work and just might have an good job in government when you get tired of polling? conspiracy theory? Sure! But so many questions unanswered. So many reasons to distrust.

I wish someone would organize a poll that was so transparent, it could truly be trusted.

Why is it always the Liberal friendly media putting out these polls? Has the Western Standard ever done one where the results were any different? (not on alienation - on voting preferences)

Canadian Sentinel said...

Well-asked, relevant questions, "anonymous". I've always wondered what the answers were to them myself. I'm going to post your comments and invite pollsters to give their response.

I wouldn't, however, hold my breath as to any prominent pollster bothering to come down from his/her luxury ivory tower or high horse or whatever they're on to grace this humble nobody's political blogsite to dignify us with reasoned responses to your reasoned queries. But what if there's actually an honest pollster out there? That'd be something...

Anonymous said...

Lotsa polls on the 'net. (But how do the functionally illiterate use them?)
ans: They don't have to- the feds tell them how to vote, ("We'll cut off your welfare) etc.

Canadian Sentinel said...

Dave's right. The ruling Libranos' strategy is to instill fear into the subconscious of the electorate via not only its own spokespeople, like "Don", but also by the MSM, some syncophantic pollsters and special interest groups.

These Liberals and their followers team up to spread malicious lies about their main political opponents, the Conservatives, while promising (but rarely delivering) paradise to certain sectors of the population who may be easily manipulated into supporting the Liberal Party of Canada in just the right areas of the country and in sufficient numbers to put the Liberals over the top in enough ridings to hold onto and abuse power, all due to the phobias programmed into them by the Liberal state.

Anonymous said...

In the last Federal Election, 60% turnout was recorded and yet Legers own raw data from the two polls in june 2004 shows WNV (will not vote) at 4% and 6%, not even close to the actual result of 40%.

This is a huge discrepancy for a poll that purports to forecast results.